A few days ago I was interviewed by András Érczfalvi for Monitor Délután (Afternoon Monitor) of TrendFM, a Hungarian radio station. The following is an edited version of the interview.
András Érczfalvi
The Afternoon Monitor continues, October 11th, MVM Future Talks, and as I mentioned in the announcement, my guest on the other end of the phone line will be David Orban, author, speaker, founder and CEO of Actioneer, and expert at MVM Future Talks. Good afternoon!
David Orban
Good afternoon! Thank you for having me!
Érczfalvi
David Orban, I said Dávid Orbán, we’re in Hungary now, we’re talking here, so I can introduce you as Dávid Orbán. You’ll have a very exciting presentation, I’ve seen a chapter of your book, “Something New” is the title. “Artificial intelligences and us, an era when there is nothing new under the sun is no longer true”. This is a multiply compound sentence, but I guess you’ll unpack it on October 11th.
Orban
Yes, we’ll be discussing these questions at MVM Future Talks, and interested parties can follow the show live on October 11th at mvmfuturetalks.hu. We’ll be talking about artificial intelligence, extending human lifespan. In general, how the world is changing based on technology, as that’s my thesis.
Érczfalvi
That’s your thesis. By the way, what do you do besides what I mentioned in the introduction?
Orban
I’m a researcher, investor, I have various companies and ventures in America and Dubai. Although I was born in Budapest, I’m rarely in Hungary, so I’m very happy to be invited to MVM Future Talks because I like to talk about these topics in Hungary as well, and I’m glad that my book is now being published in Hungarian edition, after the English, Italian and Spanish editions.
Érczfalvi
Technology, artificial intelligence, well, we’ve been occupied with this for years now, but in recent years it has become very prominent, especially artificial intelligence. Obviously, you’re not a futurist, but you’re peering into the future, if only because of your investments. What do you think? Is artificial intelligence a blessing or a curse? What does it depend on?
Orban
Actually, it’s not true that these two ways of looking at the problem contradict each other. For example, I’m very enthusiastic about technology, but that doesn’t mean I don’t consider the harm it can cause. So we all need to analyze thoroughly, at the level we can. That’s why these interviews are important, that’s why these conferences are important, so that we can understand as much as possible what questions to ask based on the assessment of artificial intelligence, and actually to artificial intelligence itself, because anyone can now use ChatGPT for free, in Hungarian too, and you can talk to it about what it thinks about things, about itself, what it thinks about society, about science. And accordingly, this is a very important conversation, because we won’t design the future alone, but together with artificial intelligence.
Érczfalvi
Well, yes, soon in this conversation I would definitely be replaceable, that artificial intelligence could excellently put a human voice to these questions, or much better ones, that’s for sure. I really liked what you write in the preface of the book, this book discusses the themes of technology, artificial intelligence, the evolution of the individual and society. It’s very important, and it’s also important what you said, that everyone at their own level needs to deal with this, because another statement from the preface is that it’s no longer true that there’s nothing new under the sun, we can’t dismiss with a wave of the hand that there has been such a revolution before, whether technical or technological revolution, we’ll survive this too. It’s much more than that.
Orban
It’s important to understand that technology is not a zero-sum game. But a process that can serve the benefit of humanity if applied properly. And I introduce in the book the concept of technological singularity, which appears in the world when artificial intelligences can not only adapt to different challenges and circumstances, but can change their own nature. They understand the programming mode in which they were built, and they set out on a path to research answers to these questions for the benefit of humanity, but increasingly independently.
Érczfalvi
We research, we peer, and we even have a telescope, I’m quoting from the book again, I really liked this, the dinosaurs didn’t have telescopes, maybe that’s why they couldn’t avoid extinction, but now this is only half-jokingly, but there’s a similar train of thought here in perhaps the first chapter of the book, if I saw correctly.
Orban
Indeed, if the dinosaurs had had a telescope, they would have at least seen the meteor coming. And we have our science too, so we need to use the tools of science, as we have done for millennia, in an increasingly effective way, so that science can help us analyze our challenges, survive if possible. There’s no guarantee, it’s not written anywhere, not even in my book, that there would be an answer to every question, every problem of ours. We start looking, and if possible in a more open form, avoiding for example the mistake of the alchemists, where they decided that they had to research secretly and didn’t share their knowledge. Rather, we should avoid artificial intelligence being a closed system too. The more openly we can analyze and use this to move forward, the more likely I think it will be to the advantage and benefit of humanity.
Érczfalvi
Well yes, it’s just complicated because the alchemists guarded the recipe because it was a competitive advantage for them anyway, now similarly but the stakes are much higher, and humanity is playing for higher stakes, that those who possess the knowledge, will they make it transparent? I’d like you to answer this suggestion of mine as well, the other thing I quote from you again, is that communication and the responsibility of the media, how they present all this. It’s not a zero-sum game, maybe this is the title of this chapter, so information provision and balance.
Orban
Yes, and I think everyone actually has the opportunity to delve into, look into, if they have the curiosity in them, what the various technological advances mean for them, for their family, for their workplace, for their society. There won’t be a single answer that applies to the entire planet Earth. There’s an advantage to the difference between, for example, Chinese artificial intelligence and American artificial intelligence. Because there are ethical, political, economic problems to which we will apply, or are already applying, artificial intelligence, and based on our worldview, we will develop different answers. This process is similar to past economic competitions, only it happens much faster. And the challenge for individuals is indeed whether they can adapt to this new world that grows before their eyes not from decade to decade, but from day to day, with artificial intelligence, but also based on our individual decisions.
Érczfalvi
I always think of the Wild West when artificial intelligence comes up, when the locomotives came, there were big losers there too, but eventually everyone got on the train, there was somehow time there. There was time to get used to it, time to adapt, and there was an alternative because the horses were still running beside the locomotives or the train cars. Now I sense that this artificial intelligence is very fast, and many people think they’re not fast enough to get on this train. I have this feeling with different generations from comments, conversations. If I saw correctly in the book, you consider this a very important question, what can people do today, what will they do tomorrow-the day after tomorrow, who will get on the train.
Orban
Yes, and I don’t have a final answer to how humans and humanity will change based on this, and whether there’s a guarantee that we can adapt to this future not only individually but as social groups as well. It’s a very big challenge, and it’s important that we organize our future in a purposeful way so that it makes sense to live in a future that we love, that we can call our own, and we recognize that we are together with artificial intelligence, with robots, and not what happened to horses, which we not only replaced when we no longer needed them to pull our carriages, but we actually ate them. And how this will unfold in the next not centuries, not even many decades, but in the next few years, will really determine the future of humanity.
Érczfalvi
MVM Future Talks, right, October 11th. What will be your most exciting statement? David, let me ask you this, or what do you think will provoke serious debate among your statements?
Orban
We need to decide whether, based on radical changes, we accept that the life form that will develop is called human, so do we expand the definition of what it means to be human in the future, and if that life form accepts this and calls itself human, can we be proud that we are exploring the universe together.
Érczfalvi
The title of your book is “Something New?” This is a question, not a statement. This is essential, isn’t it? There’s a difference.
Orban
The difference, one of the most important things in today’s world, is to develop our ability to ask valuable questions. We can find the answers, even with the help of artificial intelligence. But how we ask the questions is what actually determines in what direction we research the future. That’s why I pose the title of my book in the form of a question as well.
Érczfalvi
Thank you very much, I’m looking forward to October 11th, and the MVM Future Talks conference, and your presentation too.
Orban
Thank you very much for the conversation, for inviting me, and I hope the listeners found this conversation interesting as well.
Érczfalvi
Thank you very much. David Orban, author, speaker, founder and CEO of Actioneer, and expert at MVM Future Talks was my guest. Good work and good conference.